The Sacred

The Sacred

A podcast about the things we hold sacred, and how to talk to people different from ourselves.

Martin Shaw & Felix Marquardt on Religious Conversion, Being Vulnerable, and the Power of Myths

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Martin Shaw is a mythologist and author of the award-winning, Branch from a Lightning Tree. Felix Marquardt has worn many hats over his career from author to entrepreneur to French rap producer. He is also the co-founder of Black Elephant - an experiential social network based on vulnerability.

They spoke about their respective religious conversations to Orthodox Christianity and Islam, the power of myths and storytelling and the role of vulnerability in bridging divides.

This recording took place in Patmos and is an audio only episode.

Read the full transcript here: https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/comment/2023/07/05/martin-shaw-felix-marquardt-on-religious-conversion-being-vulnerable-and-the-power-of-myths

Chapters 00:00:00 Introduction 00:01:47 What is sacred to you? Martin Shaw and Felix Marquardt’s answers. 00:06:59 Martin’s childhood: Christianity, punk rock, and holding onto conscience 00:10:26 Martin – turning down a career in music, tent living, and rediscovering myths 00:21:11 Martin – A hundred and one nights on Dartmoor and a transformational experience 00:30:36 Felix’s childhood: toxic French secularism, fear of eternity, and escapism through drugs 00:36:58 Felix – Faith through recovery, the 12 Step movement, and showing reverence for synchronicity 00:49:50 Black Elephant: well-sealed vessels, breaking down barriers and trading growth for depth 00:57:23 The Black Elephant Question: common ground beyond the topical and the superficial 01:09:13 Reflection and Outro

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Comments

by Rob Simpson on
12 Step Programs - Handle with Care! Frank Buchman and the Oxford Group is not a happy story. Actually the founders of AA broke away from Buchman's group and went down the micro-solidarity route and into the church crypts, while Oxford Group itself morphed into Moral Re-Armament. Apart from local group meetings, my most intense AA experience was in LifeWorks, a fee-charging residential enterprise set up around selling the Program in the early days of the 12 Step roll out in the UK. It's important to get the history of AA clear as there is a shadow side which can cause harm. It seems to me that this occurs when, for the best of reasons, the Program is delivered in the context of a therapeutic enterprise/institution/organisation with service experts. That's when money takes over: LifeWorks is now in the Telus Health portfolio, see https://wellbeing.lifeworks.com/blog/12-step-programs-for-alcohol-and-drug-addiction What I would like to add to the beautiful conversation you held with Martin and Felix is that with the opening up of vulnerability comes the possibility of grace entering our nature. All I dread is the Program as a method of management returning us to usefulness and efficiency. I'm sure this won't happen with Black Elephant; but a cautionary tale isn't amiss, surely? Let me add, as an affirmation, that it wasn't the method which helped me heal but those I was with who held me, by just being there attentively.

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About this podcast

The Sacred is a podcast about our deepest values, the stories that shape us and how we can build empathy and understanding between people who are very different.

Each episode features a conversation with someone who has a public voice, from academics to journalists, playwrights and politicians. We ask them where they have come from, what they are trying to do and what might help heal our very divided public conversations.

The Sacred is hosted by Elizabeth Oldfield, former director of Theos think tank.

For more information about the people and ideas behind the podcast, visit https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/about/who-we-are or follow us on Twitter @theosthinktank, @sacred_podcast and @ESOldfield.

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